Comments for No Coercion http://www.nocoercion.com Exploring the idea of a stateless society. Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:52:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 Comment on Adventures in jury duty by Darren http://www.nocoercion.com/2012/01/30/adventures-in-jury-duty/#comment-14276 Darren Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:52:35 +0000 http://www.nocoercion.com/?p=195#comment-14276 Ha--that's great! Ha–that’s great!

]]> Comment on Adventures in jury duty by tired dog http://www.nocoercion.com/2012/01/30/adventures-in-jury-duty/#comment-14271 tired dog Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:17:57 +0000 http://www.nocoercion.com/?p=195#comment-14271 I'm in Harris County TX. I'm called on average every two yrs or so. Generally, in voir dire for a criminal case I'll ask a question about a jury's right and duty to find as to law as well as to the facts of the case. This usually puts me on the state's and the defense's 'no way do we want this guy in the box' list...but the judge will keep me sitting all day or until the box is filled anyway. In 20 yrs here I've sat for one traffic case in JP court...we acquitted in 10 minutes due to absolutely stupid testimony from the cop who wrote the citation. I’m in Harris County TX. I’m called on average every two yrs or so. Generally, in voir dire for a criminal case I’ll ask a question about a jury’s right and duty to find as to law as well as to the facts of the case. This usually puts me on the state’s and the defense’s ‘no way do we want this guy in the box’ list…but the judge will keep me sitting all day or until the box is filled anyway.
In 20 yrs here I’ve sat for one traffic case in JP court…we acquitted in 10 minutes due to absolutely stupid testimony from the cop who wrote the citation.

]]> Comment on Agorist business ideas by Darren http://www.nocoercion.com/2011/07/03/agorist-business-ideas/#comment-14086 Darren Sat, 04 Feb 2012 05:54:52 +0000 http://nocoercion.com/2011/07/03/agorist-business-ideas/#comment-14086 Jared, it's definitely been a while! Hope you're doing well. Thanks for checking out my blog and posing that question. It's really the key question in determining whether someone decides to support the state or a stateless society on consequentialist grounds (as opposed to moral grounds, which is my chief basis for opposing the state). The short answer is that if a private security firm attempted to monopolize security and dispute resolution, it would be acting as a state and would be opposed by people like myself. We'd be back to having a state, but at least that state would be starting from scratch and would only have control over a tiny area relative to what the U.S. government currently controls. In a free market society, even a firm that appears to be have a monopoly is still subject to competition, because there's no legal mechanism preventing competition (as there is in many cases today under the rules of the state). The longer answer involves the difficulties a would-be state would have in achieving a monopoly over a territory. See what Stefan Molyneux has to say about it on page 50 of his free book, Practical Anarchy: http://www.freedomainradio.com/free/books/FDR_5_PDF_Practical_Anarchy_Audiobook.pdf Jared, it’s definitely been a while! Hope you’re doing well. Thanks for checking out my blog and posing that question. It’s really the key question in determining whether someone decides to support the state or a stateless society on consequentialist grounds (as opposed to moral grounds, which is my chief basis for opposing the state). The short answer is that if a private security firm attempted to monopolize security and dispute resolution, it would be acting as a state and would be opposed by people like myself. We’d be back to having a state, but at least that state would be starting from scratch and would only have control over a tiny area relative to what the U.S. government currently controls. In a free market society, even a firm that appears to be have a monopoly is still subject to competition, because there’s no legal mechanism preventing competition (as there is in many cases today under the rules of the state). The longer answer involves the difficulties a would-be state would have in achieving a monopoly over a territory. See what Stefan Molyneux has to say about it on page 50 of his free book, Practical Anarchy: http://www.freedomainradio.com/free/books/FDR_5_PDF_Practical_Anarchy_Audiobook.pdf

]]> Comment on Adventures in jury duty by StopDemockery http://www.nocoercion.com/2012/01/30/adventures-in-jury-duty/#comment-14035 StopDemockery Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:14:39 +0000 http://www.nocoercion.com/?p=195#comment-14035 About ten years ago, I, too, was summoned (invited) to jury duty for a civil case. I told the court that Melvin Belai had said, "I'd rather be caught red handed and have the best legal council than be innocent." I said, in light of that statement and all my knowledge of how the corrupt legal system worked, that I'd vote for the party who I thought had the least money, regardless of the evidence presented. I was excused. Then I asked the judge to have my name removed from the tax rolls from which jurors are selected. He said that could be arranged. I left. And, I haven't had another invitation since. About ten years ago, I, too, was summoned (invited) to jury duty for a civil case. I told the court that Melvin Belai had said, “I’d rather be caught red handed and have the best legal council than be innocent.” I said, in light of that statement and all my knowledge of how the corrupt legal system worked, that I’d vote for the party who I thought had the least money, regardless of the evidence presented.

I was excused. Then I asked the judge to have my name removed from the tax rolls from which jurors are selected. He said that could be arranged. I left. And, I haven’t had another invitation since.

]]> Comment on Agorist business ideas by Jared http://www.nocoercion.com/2011/07/03/agorist-business-ideas/#comment-13897 Jared Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:07:41 +0000 http://nocoercion.com/2011/07/03/agorist-business-ideas/#comment-13897 Darren I know we haven't really talked in years but your ideas are very interesting to me. Thanks for taking my comments. It's like a totally agree with 1/2 or everything and totally disagree with the other 1/2. So my question comes from a relative place of ignorance; but I was wondering what would be the difference between the state now and the market under agorism. Would market forces not just become the new state? If there is competition, would the most successful market not make it so painful to go against it that it would effectively act like a coercive state especially is private firms are to provide security? Do we really want "Blackwater" forces in place of the Durham police department? Again, don't get me wrong, I disdain the violent force of nations as I am working on being a Christian pacifist but I just see this argument as substituting one force for another. I do not trust markets without a government. I think you need them both. Darren
I know we haven’t really talked in years but your ideas are very interesting to me. Thanks for taking my comments. It’s like a totally agree with 1/2 or everything and totally disagree with the other 1/2. So my question comes from a relative place of ignorance; but I was wondering what would be the difference between the state now and the market under agorism. Would market forces not just become the new state? If there is competition, would the most successful market not make it so painful to go against it that it would effectively act like a coercive state especially is private firms are to provide security? Do we really want “Blackwater” forces in place of the Durham police department? Again, don’t get me wrong, I disdain the violent force of nations as I am working on being a Christian pacifist but I just see this argument as substituting one force for another. I do not trust markets without a government. I think you need them both.

]]> Comment on Adventures in jury duty by Garland http://www.nocoercion.com/2012/01/30/adventures-in-jury-duty/#comment-13850 Garland Thu, 02 Feb 2012 03:08:41 +0000 http://www.nocoercion.com/?p=195#comment-13850 What a great experience. Just, wow! What a great experience. Just, wow!

]]> Comment on Adventures in jury duty by Terry M. http://www.nocoercion.com/2012/01/30/adventures-in-jury-duty/#comment-13771 Terry M. Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:58:26 +0000 http://www.nocoercion.com/?p=195#comment-13771 Screw jury duty, it's like pretending your vote counts during any elections. Screw jury duty, it’s like pretending your vote counts during any elections.

]]> Comment on Adventures in jury duty by Joshua http://www.nocoercion.com/2012/01/30/adventures-in-jury-duty/#comment-13753 Joshua Wed, 01 Feb 2012 14:20:00 +0000 http://www.nocoercion.com/?p=195#comment-13753 My question about jury nullification was in reference to the passage I quoted from DJMoore's comment talking about criminal courts. That's good to know though that nullification probably isn't applicable to civil disputes, which I suppose makes sense. My question about jury nullification was in reference to the passage I quoted from DJMoore’s comment talking about criminal courts. That’s good to know though that nullification probably isn’t applicable to civil disputes, which I suppose makes sense.

]]> Comment on Adventures in jury duty by Darren http://www.nocoercion.com/2012/01/30/adventures-in-jury-duty/#comment-13748 Darren Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:46:19 +0000 http://www.nocoercion.com/?p=195#comment-13748 Thanks, Joshua! I've made the argument enough in other settings that I felt pretty good about it. I had never had to make it to a judge, but since I no longer place judges on some kind of pedestal, I just kept in mind that he was a regular person and probably knew far less about the subject (voluntary law and dispute resolution, not law in general) than I. However, I do wish I had been more concise and articulate so that I could have had time to get to a couple other points before the judge ended our little impromptu debate. I would have loved to have been able to bring up the organic evolution of private systems of law and common law and the way in which market forces would serve well to weed out the biased and unfair adjudicators in such a stateless system of law. Oh well...after two years I could be called again, so I'll try to be more prepared by then! As for jury nullification, I don't think it can apply to civil disputes. At least, I've only ever seen it discussed with regard to criminal cases. Someone else might have a better answer to that. Thanks, Joshua! I’ve made the argument enough in other settings that I felt pretty good about it. I had never had to make it to a judge, but since I no longer place judges on some kind of pedestal, I just kept in mind that he was a regular person and probably knew far less about the subject (voluntary law and dispute resolution, not law in general) than I. However, I do wish I had been more concise and articulate so that I could have had time to get to a couple other points before the judge ended our little impromptu debate. I would have loved to have been able to bring up the organic evolution of private systems of law and common law and the way in which market forces would serve well to weed out the biased and unfair adjudicators in such a stateless system of law. Oh well…after two years I could be called again, so I’ll try to be more prepared by then!

As for jury nullification, I don’t think it can apply to civil disputes. At least, I’ve only ever seen it discussed with regard to criminal cases. Someone else might have a better answer to that.

]]> Comment on Adventures in jury duty by Joshua http://www.nocoercion.com/2012/01/30/adventures-in-jury-duty/#comment-13725 Joshua Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:11:40 +0000 http://www.nocoercion.com/?p=195#comment-13725 "Moreover, in the specific case of criminal courts, juries are required to judge if their fellow citizens have violated a given law while being forbidden to judge if the law itself is just." Could the concept of jury nullification apply in these cases to allow juries to judge if the law is just? What a lovely and inspiring story, by the way. I hope to be that courageous, but I'm afraid that I'd bungle my argument in the moment and fail to articulate a proper defense of individual liberty, embarrassing myself and doing a disservice to the cause in the process. Practice makes perfect though! “Moreover, in the specific case of criminal courts, juries are required to judge if their fellow citizens have violated a given law while being forbidden to judge if the law itself is just.”

Could the concept of jury nullification apply in these cases to allow juries to judge if the law is just?

What a lovely and inspiring story, by the way. I hope to be that courageous, but I’m afraid that I’d bungle my argument in the moment and fail to articulate a proper defense of individual liberty, embarrassing myself and doing a disservice to the cause in the process. Practice makes perfect though!

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